Q In what ways do you think the revolution has changed politics in Egypt?
A A great change — just go back and read newspaper headlines before January 25. We were approaching an extension of Mubarak senior for a sixth term or we were approaching a near scenario where his son was going to become Egypt’s president. We were in the midst of a highly dysfunctional regime which was not able to perform economically, not performing politically, not performing socially. In society, [we had a real crisis] in terms of sectarian tensions and so on and so forth. Before January 25, we had the worst parliamentary elections in our history since 1954 — in our history as a modern state — a completely rigged election process resulting in an over 90% majority for the National Democratic Party, a degenerated picture of state institutions not being able to perform.
Q What has the revolution achieved and where do you think we stand now?
A We still have sectarian troubles, yes, we still have degenerating state structures, and state institutions are not performing well, but we have managed to stop the erosion of the legitimacy of Egyptian politics, which had been aggressively taking place before January 25. We have removed the [immortal] president, we have stopped the succession of power to his son, we have put the former president and his close associates on trial. And I am pleased that it is not a military trial, it’s a civil trial, which is key to ensuring the establishment of the rule of law.
We are on a path — a complicated one I have to confess — to democratize Egypt, to build our new institutions, but we are on a path, we finally have a timetable [for a transition of power]. We have greater participation in public affairs, which by the way is one of the great essences of Tahrir Square. I would like to keep citizens close to politics and not push them away. It’s good to have people protesting as long as they are protesting peacefully.
We have [begun] discussions on how to fix our institutions, including the security sector [which needs reform]. We are discussing what the new constitution is going to look like, so we have opened up Egyptian politics for everyone, even movements that we described as standing far right, far left, radical movements. But that’s what democratic political space is really about; you have to get everyone in, as long as they abide by the rules.
We have challenges: We have the challenge of military-civil relations to ensure power transfer and [the challenge of] how to contain the role of the military establishment in our system. It’s an illusion that the democratic state we are looking for is a state where only [one ideology] rules.
It must be a state where the military and security establishments are subjected to civilian oversight, otherwise it won’t be a democracy. The second challenge is to create different power centers in Egyptian politics — these elections are not going to be about 60% Islamists and whoever gets the rest.
On the elections . . .
Q What do you think of the latest results of the parliamentary elections?
A I suspect the results of the second round will confirm the trend of the first round. [There is the popularity of] political Islam, where different parties are winning the majority of seats in the People’s Assembly, and [then there are] the liberal parties or, better said, the parties which defend a civil state or a modern state civil in nature with equal citizenship rights. The [latter] forces are winning less and are going to have anywhere between 20 or 25% of votes, or maybe a bit more. We will have to wait and see.
What these results tell us, well, it is our social fabric, it is our society. We discovered the reality of power relations with regards to different political parties and forces on the ground. It should be tackled from a legal perspective, of fair and transparent elections, and we should not panic.
The second point, of course, [is] the Constitution. Egyptians understand that the Constitution must be a consensus-based document, not a document in which the victory in elections of a political wing will be implemented over other orientations.
Q What will be the challenges facing the new Parliament?
A With an imbalance in Parliament, the question becomes what to do about the Constitution. Do we need outside intervention to balance what is unbalanced? I strongly believe that this will be undemocratic, that this would hinder our path in terms of building democratic institutions. To be very exact, I reject the idea of getting the Supreme Council of Armed Forces, or its advisory council, to interfere in the process of constitution writing. We will have to see how to balance from within.
My third point here is the role of liberal parties, [we have] to see what common ground we have with Islamists. Definitely the Muslim Brothers are closer, a bit closer in comparison to the Salafis. The Muslim Brothers stand somewhere right of center, Salafis stand to the right of the Muslim Brothers, to a far-right movement. We will not be able to work with far-right movements or parties such as El Nour, but we can definitely try to work and find common ground with the Freedom and Justice Party and learn to balance from within.
By the way, parliamentary results never produce a balanced parliament. It is an illusion. Even in stable democracies there are no stable parliaments — you will always find a majority and a minority, which is how politics in democracies function.
Q And what are you planning to do for Heliopolis, your district?
A Of course I was very happy about the results, to win outright in the first round without having to go to a runoff. I believe that people voted for me because they agree with the political projects I have been defending and a civil state for Egypt. I guess they have come to value that I have been defending it consistently. Secondly, I believe that many Egyptians are voting this time not based on political preferences only but on meritocracy. I did benefit from the two aspects, and I am very grateful. So I hope I will be able to perform well nationwide and in constitution- and democratization-related issues, in building institutions [that can] practice oversight over the executive branch of government, which has been, since 1954, the dominant branch of government in the country, and in doing some developmental work for Egypt and my district as well.
Q What do you think of the movement to boycott the elections?
A The choice to boycott is a legitimate choice in any election. I myself do not see it as politically viable, but I do respect it. I guess [the boycott was] motivated by one of two factors. The first is that Parliament is not going to represent what our aspirations are, and here what I disagree with is the idea that you either get it all or you get nothing. It is never that way in politics.
We are in the [process] of gradual transition and building institutions; it will take time. It is a step, a tiny step. That idea of getting it right or forgetting about it is unrealistic.
[The second factor is the belief that] the whole process is flawed, that we are getting nowhere and that we’d best demonstrate in Tahrir Square until we get it right. Once again, that binary understanding, either Tahrir or parliamentary elections, I disagree with. I see the path of popular protests, citizens expressing their views, their dissatisfaction, their disenchantment out there on the street as a legitimate path — no one should argue with the legitimacy of this path, as long as it abides by the rules. But the Tahrir path does not eat away from the legitimacy of the second path, which is a path to build institutions.
At the end of the day, if we are looking for a road to transfer power to elected institutions, we need to elect some bodies. How are we going to elect them without going into the democratic procedures of electing a parliament, of drafting a constitution, approving it in a referendum and then electing a president?
On being in public office . . .
Q What are you planning to do on your first day in office?
A I will be [lobbying] for legislation to ensure the nationwide independence of the Egyptian judiciary. With regards to the district, I will be pushing for a discussion on how to adopt developmental projects, primarily the modernization of the metro lines which exist in Heliopolis and need to be modernized and extended.
The assembly will have to discuss its internal regulations. A decision will have to be made on whether to adopt the internal regulations used to govern the inner working of the People’s Assembly up until 2010, or if it will be updated. We will have to get started right away [to get to] the grand mission of the People’s Assembly, which is to [form] the constitutional assembly and get started on constitution-related matters.
Q What are the obstacles of being a public figure in politics today?
A Well, it’s a serious concern that I have. Egyptian politics is not an innocent place, and there are a great deal of dirty games driven by ideological preferences. You see opponents attacking you on personal issues, on issues pertaining to your personal life, for religious beliefs, or your commitment and so on and so forth. [It] comes with being a politician, a parliamentarian. I have to get used to it. It is a tiny price I am paying for great support, and I am enjoying it. I am happy with what is happening, I can manage well to be psychologically stable — or at least I think so.
Avoiding dirty politics in Parliament is going to be tough, especially because of the polarization. It did happen to me in the past months , occasionally being attacked by liberals as well as Islamists, but once again I see myself as defending ideas, defending principles. I am [in conflict] as of now with many liberals regarding the advisory council to the SCAF. I see it as a flawed measure that we do not need. It gets the SCAF once again into Egyptian politics in a way which is not democratic. But this is the only way to balance the imbalance, I will have to get used to occasionally confronted, from both ideological sides. As long as I feel that I can defend my ideas and principles and my rights, I [can] defend collective rights.
Q How do see yourself juggling your career as a professor with politics?
A Once again, this is a serious concern. My inclination is to devote my time to Parliament, in fact, to take it seriously since it is the first time for me to do [the job]. I have to do some learning, I have read the entire regulations of the People’s Assembly up to three times to be able to understand [laughs]. I am trying to free myself from my teaching duties at Cairo University and at the American University in Cairo. I’ll probably end up teaching a bit, but I have to focus on my parliamentary duties.
Secondly, I still have to find time for my kids; I have two boys who live in Berlin. It has been a great burden on them and on me for the past 11 months that I have not been able to get to see them as I used to before. So I will have to come up with a schedule which gives me a couple of days every month to see my boys and get them to come and see me once matters stabilize in Egypt.
Q You are aware that people voted for you because of your charisma. How do you think people relate to you?
A I enjoy being among people, I enjoy being out there on the streets. It is where I feel at my best, where I get most of my energy to write academically, to write for the press, to come up with political ideas. One of my real concerns is that Parliament and parliamentary duties should not take me away from being with the people, because if I lose that I will not have the energy to generate ideas.
Egyptians have great, great ideas and, definitely, one is constantly surprised by the degree of devotion, by the degree of hope, by the degree of positive and constructive energy. I would like to tap into that. I have been able to a tiny bit [but] would like to continue doing that. et
